RobbieTheWagner 
Charles William Carpenter III [00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Syntax. Welcome to a brand new episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast. Welcome to this week’s JS Party. Live from Ship Shape Studios, this is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. With your hosts, Robbie the Wagner, and me, Charles William Carpenter III. That’s right Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development.
[00:00:27] I mean, it’s all in the name. It’s not that deep. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Do not adjust your set.
[00:00:36] Chuck Carpenter: In a world where two men drink whiskey and podcast, one of them grew a beard.
[00:00:45] Robbie Wagner: Not the direction I was going to go.
[00:00:47] I was going to say, Decision 2024, where the only decision is to drink whiskey.
[00:00:52] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, exactly. I mean, is there another decision required of us? None whatsoever. Does anyone want our [00:01:00] opinions about anything that isn’t brown juice that you’re required to be 21 and older to drink? No, I don’t think so either, At least not actually in the whiskey world. We haven’t fooled them. Just these silly developers.
[00:01:18] Robbie Wagner: Yes, the intersection of whiskey, developer, and people that, for some reason, like our voices,
[00:01:24] whatever
[00:01:25] Chuck Carpenter: They’re very curious
[00:01:26] Robbie Wagner: we, we love all of them though.
[00:01:28] Chuck Carpenter: yes, we, we, uh, we appreciate you. , some of them we’ve been able to show in person, so thank you to anyone listening who joined us in Raleigh for All Things Open. That was super fun, and thank you for not making us take many boxes of t shirts back.
[00:01:45] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I have to say probably the best thing about Raleigh is that you can get fried okra for breakfast. So
[00:01:53] Chuck Carpenter: I mean, that’s the South. That’s the South. I mean, that’s some stuff that you gotta love about the South. You know what sounds like an amazing breakfast? It’s like [00:02:00] biscuits and gravy with a side of fried okra.
[00:02:02] Robbie Wagner: Mm hmm.
[00:02:03] Chuck Carpenter: I would also take fried pickles and many other fried things.
[00:02:07] Robbie Wagner: Well, I don’t like pickles, but yeah, fried makes everything better.
[00:02:10] Chuck Carpenter: It does. And the cornmeal fried that’s around like okra and a lot of those things in the South. Quite delicious.
[00:02:18] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, should we talk about this whiskey?
[00:02:20] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, let’s talk about the whiskey. I mean, it’s
[00:02:22] Robbie Wagner: Empire.
[00:02:23] Chuck Carpenter: the Redwood Empire. It is completely brand new to me. I definitely have not tried it before. so today we’re having
[00:02:30] the Redwood Empire Emerald Giant Rye Whiskey.
[00:02:34] Uh, it has a mash bill. Yeah, I love how you’re showing it to the folks at home. , 92 percent rye, 5 percent malted barley, and 3 percent wheat.
[00:02:42] A little touch of wheat there. That’s nice. 90 proof. , and it is a blend of 4 to 7 year old barrels aged in California. by the Californians.
[00:02:51] , yeah, let’s get at it.
[00:02:57] Sound effects brought to you by the [00:03:00] Wagner House.
[00:03:02] It’s Centauri time. I really, I just like saying that.
[00:03:07] Robbie Wagner: That’s not a, uh, Norland glass I see.
[00:03:10] Chuck Carpenter: It is not, it is my aged in ore, , travel kit. Because, , some folks may notice that I am yet again in a different location. Because that is, uh, it’s what I like to do. What can I do on the road? The co working space that has a podcast room that I have been recording from recently, , had an issue with that table in there and I wouldn’t have held my laptop, let alone all the rest of the equipment.
[00:03:35] So I had to ski daddle back to the home and quickly set up here where it’s much brighter. And, uh, I’m lucky that the rest of my family is actually out, , for the afternoon, giving us at least the quiet with which to imbibe.
[00:03:50] Robbie Wagner: Indeed.
[00:03:51] Chuck Carpenter: Yes, indeed. It’s got quite a sweet smell for me.
[00:03:55] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, it smells extremely apple y to me.
[00:03:58] Chuck Carpenter: Mmm, yeah, okay. [00:04:00] Like a caramel apple. Actually, I can get
[00:04:02] that little
[00:04:02] Robbie Wagner: mm hmm. Like,
[00:04:04] Chuck Carpenter: Very pleasant.
[00:04:05] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, like, uh, you could tell me this was a cup of apple cider, and I wouldn’t be like, ah, no, it’s not.
[00:04:10] Chuck Carpenter: Right, yeah. That’s ridiculous. Alright, well on that I’m going to prime the palette and then kind of get into it.
[00:04:16] By the way, are we live streaming?
[00:04:18] Robbie Wagner: Mm hmm.
[00:04:19] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, let’s see. I’m going to make sure I have the chat open just in case we have any friends there who, uh, may have
[00:04:27] Robbie Wagner: if Charles or Cyrus want to join us.
[00:04:30] Chuck Carpenter: Anyone, anyone,
[00:04:31] Robbie Wagner: Or anyone, but
[00:04:32] Chuck Carpenter: anyone? You know, if you’d like to join us, yeah, would you like to join us for a drink? Maybe if we had Advertised it like that.
[00:04:39] We are recording this on Wednesday, November 6th And some folks may feel the need to drink actually a lot of folks may feel the need to drink regardless of what your opinions
[00:04:49] On
[00:04:49] Robbie Wagner: Mm hmm.
[00:04:50] Chuck Carpenter: so there’s nothing wrong with that It has a little bit. Well, I primed it. So I’m gonna give it kind of This episode is brought to you by the primogen Watch [00:05:00] his, world famous YouTube stream, The Prime Time.
[00:05:03] Robbie Wagner: Where he will Do some JavaScript sometimes. and
[00:05:07] usually not.
[00:05:08] Chuck Carpenter: No, it’s usually, every time I jump on it, it ends up being, , like, go.
[00:05:12] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.
[00:05:12] Whenever he’s doing JavaScript, the title is always something to the effect of like, I’m actually doing JavaScript guys. Come watch something like that.
[00:05:20] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. It’s got a nice smooth finish. Again, kind of some sweet on that finish. Initially, , and I mean this in a good way, but like, it’s initial flavors are a little vinegary, but like an apple cider vinegar without being so tart. Like if you had a watered down in the beginnings of that, and then coated definitely in that, Caramel butterscotch as part of the finish.
[00:05:44] Something else I’m trying to pick up on
[00:05:46] here.
[00:05:47] Robbie Wagner: this would be a good barbecue sauce.
[00:05:48] Chuck Carpenter: I think so, yeah. I’ve never made a barbecue sauce from whiskey, but I did see like a Maker’s Mark one from it
[00:05:55] before.
[00:05:56] Robbie Wagner: Now we’re gonna have to make our own Dr. Pepper barbecue sauce. There was
[00:05:59] this [00:06:00] false advertising of that at Sheetz.
[00:06:02] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, this episode is brought to you by Wawa because sheets fucked us.
[00:06:06] Robbie Wagner: well, I wouldn’t say, I wouldn’t go that
[00:06:08] far. Sheetz is still the winner,
[00:06:10] but
[00:06:11] Chuck Carpenter: they did have like quite the bread was good I mean, I like both but the bread was good and I did enjoy their Italian a little better. I don’t know if
[00:06:20] that’s Probably gonna make some enemies out of that comment Already and any other things you’re picking up in this whiskey. There’s something almost like Piney or something like the smell of pine needles, but like a slight like taste of that.
[00:06:36] I don’t know
[00:06:36] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, some coniferous foliage.
[00:06:40] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, that’s it. I don’t know where you pulled that from, but, uh, I respect it. I respect the game. You brought it.
[00:06:47] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, some, some balsam and, uh, I don’t know, fuck it. I’m not getting a lot.
[00:06:53] It is, When you’ve said something about it tasting like a little bit like a pine tree, I get a little of those notes, but
[00:06:59] It’s not [00:07:00] like, heavily
[00:07:01] Chuck Carpenter: No, it’s very faint. It’s mostly a bit of that, like, tart. cider vinegar, kind of in the beginning. And then a very sweet finish and pretty smooth going down. So we’ll say that, , I know we’ve tried at least one other Redwood empire. I think they’re bourbon. yeah, this is interesting. It’s actually like, I would say like, not bad.
[00:07:20] This is definitely worth trying for me. I don’t know what you think uh, let, let the folks at home know what our, uh, highly, , stringent rating system is.
[00:07:29] Robbie Wagner: Our system is very complex. It’s very hard for people to understand. It is 0 to 8 tentacles. That is the number of tentacles an octopus can have, usually. And 8 is the most ideal amount of tentacles. The octopus is fully alive. No one has hunted it or cut its tentacles off. It’s your,
[00:07:48] you really like the whiskey. , if it has no tentacles, you’ve probably killed that octopus. You hate that whiskey.
[00:07:53] Uh, four is like, you know, he’s struggling, but as we learned, they can regenerate their tentacles. So like, might be [00:08:00] okay with half of it, middle of the road. , gonna survive hopefully. I think this is. I don’t know.
[00:08:05] It’s, it’s not super yummy for being a rye, at least from the rise I’m used to.
[00:08:11] I don’t think there’s anything I can pick out necessarily that I’m like, I don’t like this, but just for me, like purely subjective, like, I don’t love it. I’m going to give it a four, I think.
[00:08:20] Chuck Carpenter: Okay. Yeah. I don’t know. I think it’s interesting. I guess it’s true when you like compare to other rice. I think it’s interesting. I think it’s easy drinking. I don’t think it stands out a ton, though. , I don’t know. I think it’s 40, 50 bucks, let’s say, in that range. Nothing crazy. But, feels a little singular note and lacks the spice that we look for in a rye, especially 92 percent rye.
[00:08:45] Like that wheat really kind of does a lot to make it sweeter and a little smoother through. And so it’s missing some notes maybe because of that. For me, I was going to go maybe like four and a half to five. I’ll probably just do four and a half. I don’t know. , it’s different than [00:09:00] average, and I would say somebody hadn’t really cared for a traditional rye.
[00:09:05] You might like this one because it adds a bit a very light note of sweetness from like a weeded bourbon, but not crazy like that. It’s a good middle road if like weeded bourbon is too much for you, but
[00:09:17] you also don’t want like a spice punch. This might work. Yeah, it’s okay. Not bad.
[00:09:22] I would drink, wouldn’t necessarily sink it up.
[00:09:26] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. I think. Like I’ve been rating everything kind of like six or seven and
[00:09:30] I’m just trying to kind of reign that in a bit because we’re we’ve had a lot of whiskeys and like unless I rate it below a four that’s saying I would drink it again I like it
[00:09:41] so like I’m not saying this is bad if you want to try it out definitely do
[00:09:46] but like you know I gotta start being more aggressive with the ratings I
[00:09:50] Chuck Carpenter: Especially you because you are a, you know, rye aficionado, a rye, a classic rye fanatic, you may say. [00:10:00] And if this just, you know, it’s not checking those basic boxes for you, it should definitely be, , pushed back. Yeah. I mean, if we baseline this to Sagamore, Sagamore is just more well rounded, hits all of those traditional notes around a rye, , a little more punch.
[00:10:17] , and that’s maybe more of a straight sipper while this might be interesting in some rye based cocktails.
[00:10:23] Robbie Wagner: yeah.
[00:10:24] Chuck Carpenter: Cool. we have no hot takes for each other because why would we do that? You know, how many times can we add, ask, get rebase or get merge? And I still say get rebase, by the way, because interactive rebase is very powerful and I
[00:10:37] appreciate it.
[00:10:39] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, rebase is definitely the winner. But yeah, I mean, there’s probably some more hot takes. I’ve been having a hard time keeping track of what is a hot take due to other things happening in the world and they’re not being as many posts and then also due to everyone leaving for blue sky. I don’t know if you’ve been keeping track of that.
[00:10:57] Chuck Carpenter: Maybe that’s a hot take. Uh, Blue Sky or [00:11:00] Twitter.
[00:11:00] Robbie Wagner: It depends. Yeah.
[00:11:03] Chuck Carpenter: and here’s what it is mostly. Is that, never say never, but like, I barely want to be on one social media platform, so I’m just not willing to kind of like, schedule out and split time and whatever else. And kind of like, all the time.
[00:11:17] Watching nerd fights and replying in you know, memes or whatever is fun for me. And so it’s sort of like, I don’t really think any of these platforms are for serious discourse necessarily. They’re more for
[00:11:32] like, here’s what I did, or here’s the thing I think, or here’s like a mind blurb. And then outside of that, it’s like, I don’t want to do that for, I don’t even have an Instagram, you know?
[00:11:41] It’s like, I don’t want to do that
[00:11:42] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, well, what I will say is never underestimate the wrath of an entire set of people who most of the people from Tech Twitter are probably not happy with the election, therefore not happy with Elon and are leaving for that [00:12:00] reason.
[00:12:00] I have yet to see a platform capture the same. dynamicism, I don’t know what, like, it’s fun to be able to see different content.
[00:12:07] It still seems to understand that I want to see mostly technical stuff. the algorithm for better or worse has been mostly good. It’s been bad recently for our posts.
[00:12:18] Like, no one
[00:12:18] sees our stuff. for whatever reason. And maybe that was an election time thing. Like, everything not election was just kind of deprioritized
[00:12:26] or
[00:12:26] Chuck Carpenter: I don’t know. The stuff that like catches fire is weird and I, I’m still an idiot maybe just mostly because I don’t put enough effort into it, I don’t know, or maybe it’s just my things aren’t as compelling as I think they are, but like, the ones that do get a bunch of things seen, it’s just really weird.
[00:12:44] Like I commented on. somebody was talking about like having contractors make their app like offshore and getting back like this crazy complex stack that included Kafka. It essentially was like a CRUD application and I was like, why is Kafka part of [00:13:00] this? Why is a message like a very complex messaging cube set up thing?
[00:13:06] a part of what you’re describing and that one did really well weird stuff. So I it’s hard to say
[00:13:12] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I really don’t understand it, but like, So, for one, Runspired no longer has Twitter or Facebook. He declared he deleted both.
[00:13:21] Chuck Carpenter: Did he actually because I feel like he’s raged quit a couple of times
[00:13:26] and then
[00:13:27] like people have left now is the
[00:13:29] Don’t think they’ve left left
[00:13:30] though.
[00:13:30] I not left. Have
[00:13:32] Robbie Wagner: created a Well, yeah. And I see that and you saw the, you know, butterfly effect, blah, blah, blah, ha, ha, ha, whatever. , and it’s fine, like, again, if you have time and you want to invest in that and see where that goes, hey, let me know.
[00:13:44] Chuck Carpenter: But, like, I just, I don’t have it.
[00:13:48] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, I mean I have one and the podcast has one
[00:13:52] , I don’t even know how you search for people like so that’s the the thing is I mean the search is good I’m, not saying it’s like the search [00:14:00] is bad But it’s like this weird thing that I don’t understand where you can either be like part of the blue sky Like core thing or you can host your own Or you can do a little bit of both where you like, you’re like, I have a website but I want to use kind of the base feed still. And so I’ve like validated myself as Robbie, the Wagner do dev and the podcast is Whiskey fm.
[00:14:23] So like
[00:14:24] Chuck Carpenter: Hm.
[00:14:25] Robbie Wagner: I think that’s kind of cool that you can be like, you know for sure these people are associated with that domain
[00:14:30] because they’ve verified it through their DNS. So that’s compelling. There’s also like,
[00:14:36] but then I don’t get how it works.
[00:14:37] Cause there’s like the main feed, which like, there’s gotta be some kind of algorithm behind it. It does ask you, it’s like, Hey, like 10 things. So we know what you like.
[00:14:46] it’s building something,
[00:14:48] but then there’s also like a ton of other feeds. You’re like, Oh, I want, you know, gaming or like, there’s like, you know, thousands of different feeds. You can make your own feeds. So you could say like, I know all the best [00:15:00] people. Here’s a feed of everything I like. You should follow that feed. Then you can make like a starter pack of people to follow too. And you can just click follow all at the top.
[00:15:09] So like I have one of all of the podcast guests we’ve had. You can just follow them all easily.
[00:15:13] Chuck Carpenter: Well, that’s kind of Um, like there’s a lot of potentially cool things. And it seems like Dan Abramov is the one that’s in charge of this now. Which is kind of cool.
[00:15:23] Robbie Wagner: maybe he always has been, but I don’t know. It, it kind of sucked when it first came out.
[00:15:26] So I’m, I don’t know that I want to throw him under the bus like that, but,
[00:15:30] Chuck Carpenter: You know, he can’t be great at everything.
[00:15:32] Robbie Wagner: well,
[00:15:33] Yeah.
[00:15:34] Chuck Carpenter: The Achilles heel of Dan. Yeah.
[00:15:38] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, but it’s like, I don’t know, but I, I feel like something is different initially, everyone got a threads and everyone got a blue sky. And they both were just like I’ve got these and everyone was like, well, no one’s talking here. So like we’re back on twitter
[00:15:52] and Now it feels different.
[00:15:55] It feels like a lot of people are So fed up that they’re like gonna stay [00:16:00] over there
[00:16:00] Chuck Carpenter: Maybe, but I, okay. So, I think, like, creating a perfect cocoon of the idealized, like, Social community that you want to exist can be a fallacy in that you’re completely blocked off for like certain parts of reality that exist out there and suffices to say, right?
[00:16:23] I, I believe that there are certain people like politically that believed with grand certainty about particular outcomes because. their circle of influence made them believe so. And I think that there’s there’s some negatives to being able to completely, like, that out of your sphere of knowledge and influence and experience.
[00:16:50] Obviously, like, if you feel like you’re on Twitter and you are subject to some kind of, , harm that you don’t want to experience or like, you know, psychological or [00:17:00] whatever else, like, you should, you should get out of that. But for a whole community to sort of, Remove themselves. I mean, because bear in mind again, like this isn’t some kind of discord or whatever else where we’re trying to talk about JavaScript exclusively.
[00:17:14] Like we are trying to like get info and influence that is tangential. And also sometimes I like randomly going across like all of a sudden. Because I saw like a history post or something and went down that rabbit hole a little
[00:17:28] bit.
[00:17:28] Like those come up every once in a while. I think they’re very fun. But that’s not necessarily like a subject that I’m going to curate.
[00:17:35] I think I’m just going to kind of fall into it. It feels like walking around like an antiques mall or something and finding something cool or finding jack shit nothing. Like that’s kind of the fun of it.
[00:17:45] Robbie Wagner: yeah, I think no one has really captured that and you have a good point like I think everyone on both sides of the election was like, I know what’s gonna happen.
[00:17:55] Like this is in the bag and it’s like not [00:18:00] the case, obviously, but being able to see the other side kind of gets you Takes your brain out of this like it’s a done deal. I know everything
[00:18:09] whatever like you get to see like Maybe the media is very biased. Like if you’re watching NBC or whatever
[00:18:17] you’re
[00:18:17] Chuck Carpenter: It absolutely is geared to their idealized audience because money comes from ratings and ratings, you know, matter and, you know, you pick your side so you can hear what you want to hear kind of thing. Again, I think that is another fallacy to, to that whole problem is like if you don’t get objective news sources or objective scientific sources and things like that, like it.
[00:18:41] That sounds like a really, let me just, Oh my God, Jason. yeah. So we’ve just let, uh, our third listener know that the media could be biased. I mean, it’s hard to say it does feel that way. journalism should be facts based and isn’t always the case. I don’t know, [00:19:00] but alas,
[00:19:02] Robbie Wagner: we all gotta make money
[00:19:03] don’t hate the player, hate the game.
[00:19:05] Chuck Carpenter: you know, Twitter is a conversation point and people can say kind of what they want there to a degree. , without it being like some crazy forum where, you know, you’re anonymized. I mean,
[00:19:18] actually there’s some liars on Twitter too. It’s not even their names. Can you imagine?
[00:19:23] Warren Buffering. That’s not your fucking name.
[00:19:26] Robbie Wagner: Maybe he’ll change it legally
[00:19:27] though.
[00:19:29] Chuck Carpenter: I think you should. Yeah, his kids will be the
[00:19:31] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. Cause his wife’s account is like Mrs. Buffering, right? So Yeah.
[00:19:35] I think you’re both living a lie. Just change your last names.
[00:19:38] And, uh,
[00:19:40] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. See, so, or maybe we’ve done it wrong. Like, right. We should have anonymized ourselves on the
[00:19:46] Robbie Wagner: Oh, see,
[00:19:47] Chuck Carpenter: to a degree,
[00:19:48] Robbie Wagner: about, I don’t care about being anonymized, but thinking about like, Okay. You could pick whatever name.
[00:19:54] Like I’ve thought of, stupid little handles or jokes or whatever, but not like a, [00:20:00] that’s a more nuanced, like they could be a name. I didn’t think of like picking a person’s name.
[00:20:07] That’s also kind of a joke, you know?
[00:20:09] So I’m like, That’s a cool way to go about it. You could do a name that seems kind of real.
[00:20:14] Everyone can know you by that. And it’s just fake.
[00:20:17] Chuck Carpenter: Do you think Jack Reisider is his real name?
[00:20:20] Robbie Wagner: Absolutely not.
[00:20:21] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. You don’t think there’s a chance? No way. And it’s pretty smart because it’s like seeing, you know, why not like actors, musicians, many performers have chosen pseudonyms for Marilyn Monroe. Wasn’t her real name. yeah, I mean, I
[00:20:35] guess
[00:20:35] Robbie Wagner: It’s very common, yeah, I just I never thought about it that way, I don’t know why.
[00:20:39] I was thinking like, screen names in the traditional sense
[00:20:43] versus names that could be plausibly real, you know?
[00:20:46] Chuck Carpenter: yeah. It’s a very like. Specific effort and knowing like where I’m going in life. Jeffrey Dahmer. Yeah, that’s suggested as your, uh, your name, your stage name. [00:21:00] yeah, I mean, I had like a gamer name, a couple of gamer names like back in the day, or like, so I would go to, , arcades in the year you play. And if you get like a high score and you put in, three letters.
[00:21:12] So I thought I was super clever for putting in Zod. All hail son of Jor El,
[00:21:18] kneel
[00:21:18] Robbie Wagner: just didn’t do like ass
[00:21:20] Chuck Carpenter: No, no, I did Zod because I thought like that was like pretty clever and whatever else. If you’ve seen Superman 2, you know what I mean. Right? It was the second one. Uh,
[00:21:31] of
[00:21:32] Robbie Wagner: know i’m familiar with the reference I don’t know that i’ve seen the movie
[00:21:35] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, you probably haven’t. The first one came out in like 78, something like that.
[00:21:38] But Christopher Reeve, I mean, it’s a classic. well, Jason, I’m gonna let you know, my gamer name for a while was Junior McBride. And I thought it was hilarious because it was the name of a character in a 70s porn. And why I thought it was hilarious is like, it’s early on or [00:22:00] whatever and junior comes in to like help the neighbor or whatever.
[00:22:03] And it’s the seventies, so the top part of his pants are very tight and then it’s like loose down. And he’s like, yeah, it’s junior. And she looks at him and says, you don’t look like a junior to me. And she’s of course checking out the business. And I just thought that’s hilarious. So I used that for a while.
[00:22:21] Um, Yeah, so there you go. There’s a good story. Should we talk about anything tech related or
[00:22:27] tech?
[00:22:28] Robbie Wagner: probably um,
[00:22:29] Chuck Carpenter: You’ve jumped ahead to other shit, which is apparently
[00:22:33] our new show name
[00:22:35] Robbie Wagner: yeah, yeah, catch our new podcast, other shit. You can find it on just Amazon music.
[00:22:42] Chuck Carpenter: Yes, that’s it You’ll find it on Wondery, the Wondery app
[00:22:47] Robbie Wagner: Oh, no, you
[00:22:48] Chuck Carpenter: And you could subscribe for I don’t know what their common subscription rates may be but You know these
[00:22:55] things
[00:22:55] Robbie Wagner: I think it’s, uh, 9. 99 or, you know,
[00:22:59] whatever. The same [00:23:00] thing. Like everybody charges per month.
[00:23:01] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, become a super fan. Just send me $10 bill crisp. $10 bill in the mail each
[00:23:07] month. Yeah. Well. For real, for real, we do have memberships if people want to support us, go to whiskey. fund. , it’s much better to get a membership, even a cheaper one than buy a shirt. Cause the shirts really don’t give us any money.
[00:23:20] Podcast as a service.
[00:23:23] Robbie Wagner: yeah, like, you know, if you’re enjoying this and you want to hear more, we have to spend money on whiskey every week, you
[00:23:28] know, first world problems, but like, it’s not cheap.
[00:23:31] So,
[00:23:32] Chuck Carpenter: I don’t even have a job. I mean, come on. so speaking of jobs, not Steve, so,
[00:23:39] um, yeah. Fake jobs. Yeah. . Anyway
[00:23:44] In terms of like, nerd fights one of many nerd fights has been around like what is a framework and a web framework should include everything needed to have a basic web application, authentication being a big part of that, [00:24:00] folks would probably say ORM, webhooks, and a a mailing service.
[00:24:06] I do feel like a mailing service, webhooks, and just. Basic authentication. You can like upgrade and do more. But if you can’t like just get started, you know, this is kind of the rails formula of things. The Django formula of things. Those are sort of the areas that I’m thinking of.
[00:24:23] I’ve used Redwood. Redwood has all of those things. Is it actually a framework? Potentially, and then I think in all of those you can get started with SQLite Also, so you essentially could build a web application on a plane. You could be on a long plane ride and work on this and
[00:24:44] no problems, internet not required kind of
[00:24:46] thing.
[00:24:46] Robbie Wagner: So
[00:24:46] I do wonder, sorry, I’m derailing
[00:24:48] your thought here, but I wonder if someone has compared explicitly like a Rails or a Laravel or something that has like authentication some kind [00:25:00] of ORM some like basic stuff built in and To a thing like go the complete opposite way and like literally write no code except for hooking the apis together obviously if your internet is off you can’t use your app at all or if your internet is slow you know what’s the performance difference versus you running you know a rails app on like a bare metal server somewhere and someone’s hitting that and like I would be curious to see Where those bottlenecks are and like, are there actual upsides or downsides to certain things versus like, you know, it being all or nothing.
[00:25:37] Like I tend to think rails has had it right the whole time. I would just do that because we have way too many like cloud services now. is that the right answer? I don’t know because I haven’t explicitly compared them.
[00:25:50] Chuck Carpenter: your job for the rest of this week is to explicitly compare those and then we’ll have a show. We’ll have a happy hour where
[00:25:56] we just
[00:25:56] Robbie Wagner: Alright, I’ll just tell, uh, tell work that I’m not going to do any [00:26:00] work and I’m going to do that instead because
[00:26:02] Chuck said I should.
[00:26:03] Chuck Carpenter: well, it’s research for your next, , RFP or whatever you have to do to get acknowledged as a experienced developer at Amazon.
[00:26:15] it would be really funny if your manager ever listened to this podcast.
[00:26:21] Robbie Wagner: Oh, he definitely doesn’t.
[00:26:22] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, if he did though, he’d be like, Robbie, why are you always complaining about me on the internet and this whole company?
[00:26:29] Robbie Wagner: the way I can tell no one listens to it is because no one has brought it up. to be fair, I don’t say anything that, that bad. I’m upset and I make it known, but I’m
[00:26:37] not like, you know, this person sucks and
[00:26:40] Chuck Carpenter: I don’t think you say anything you probably haven’t said to them. So,
[00:26:43] Robbie Wagner: yeah, I have a very transparent relationship with everyone at work.
[00:26:48] And maybe that’s part of why people don’t like me enough and don’t want to promote me. But, I don’t know that that’s another point. And I’m totally derailing you again, but Should you just be your authentic self all the [00:27:00] time or not? Maybe not all the
[00:27:01] time, but like mostly, okay, you’re saying No, Cause like a lot of people say, if you’re trying to be like a podcaster or, you know, create content, trying to fake a thing that’s like, Oh, this is my persona. And it’s not really like, is never as compelling as just being yourself and like, you know, being true to whatever.
[00:27:21] Chuck Carpenter: Okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna, senior engineer you right now and say it depends. Because I think that there are podcasts that very much have that feel of like, I want a marketing, like it’s a marketing ploy or whatever else and I guess to one degree, that’s what we started here initially, but our vibe is not that our vibe is hanging out.
[00:27:44] Our vibe is following a loose structure. Our vibe is, You know, trying to dig out some interesting, different things. And then also just like Hey, you and I are, we’re drinking and we’re talking about tech things. Cause believe it or not, we do that offline too. and just kind of sharing [00:28:00] those real conversations with people, especially like people who maybe haven’t been in the industry as long as like.
[00:28:05] That, I guess, was one plus to being in office with your team is that you’d sit and bullshit through some different things that you maybe like read about and thought were cool or you’re working through something and you’re like, hey, Robbie, come sit down here. I think this was like kind of clever and you’re like, not as clever as you think because blah, blah, blah, you know.
[00:28:23] That’s what’s happening here on ours. So on the podcast, yes. , in a work situation, absolutely not. This is not how I am as your manager. Like, no way. I’m not like completely closed off because you know, you are building relationships to a degree, but you’re also not like oversharing and over, you know, you’re like maintaining professional lines, I think, but, uh, I don’t know.
[00:28:49] Nobody likes me either. So
[00:28:51] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.
[00:28:52] Well, so, so I, I do, I do think you’re, you’re right. That like, I always try to keep it somewhat professional at [00:29:00] work. I guess what I’m getting at is like, say the, uh, you know, YouTube craze of like, let’s just take a bar of soap and like cut it up. Right. Like do you do that to make money or do you Do what you like, regardless of whether it makes money. You know what I mean?
[00:29:17] Like, like, should we spin the show? Should we take the whiskey part out? We can still drink the whiskey. We just won’t talk about it because we want more listeners who drop off during that part.
[00:29:26] you know what I mean? Like
[00:29:27] do we feel like, you know, in general, is like that going to actually help or is it better to do the thing you want to do and just stay on that? And if it works, it works.
[00:29:36] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Well, if we dropped the whiskey as an explicit part, I think that we would blend in too much, we’re not trying to do what Wes and Scott are doing, right? Like they do it. Well, they’re going down a particular path. We’re not trying to do that. We’re not trying to do Dev, you know, yeah, tell me another
[00:29:56] Robbie Wagner: Shop talk, uh, tomorrow
[00:29:59] Chuck Carpenter: whatever. [00:30:00] Yeah, I mean, well, we’re closer aligned to Tomorrow. fm, right? Because they’re kind of like doing a very conversational post, and we add alcohol to it so that, that way, you know, things get loosened up and whatever else.
[00:30:12] Yeah, I think it adds something to it. I was thinking like, uh, DevTools, right? So, like, That is very subject specific and goes down a rabbit hole of that specific subject. We don’t have the same specific subject. So, yeah, I think we would be remiss to remove the discussion of whiskey. bringing a passion that is tech focused and gets us into fireside chat mode.
[00:30:38] So,
[00:30:39] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. For what it’s worth. People don’t seem to be skipping it. The people that do listen,
[00:30:44] they do absolutely every single time skip the, if we’re like, this is brought to you by that gets skipped
[00:30:50] every single time, which is interesting.
[00:30:53] Chuck Carpenter: Which is hilarious because I do it all the time for fun. this episode is sponsored by
[00:30:58] TORC. Jason [00:31:00] Torres will be receiving a, an invoice shortly for that sponsorship. It’ll run six episodes and I hope you have a budget of at least 4, 000 because I’m running low on whiskey money, bro.
[00:31:12] Whiskey money.
[00:31:13] Robbie Wagner: No, I mean the ones at the beginning, because people know that’s where ads are. And if you start to say something that sounds like an ad, they just skip, you know, hit skip until they hear
[00:31:20] you
[00:31:21] Chuck Carpenter: I do it too, though. I do it too. You know,
[00:31:24] uh, ones I enjoy.
[00:31:25] CTA: This just in! Whiskey.fund is now open for all your merch needs. That’s right, Robbie. We’re hearing reports of hats, sweaters, and T-shirts, as well as a link to join our Discord server. What’s a Discord server? Just read the prompter, man. Hit subscribe. Leave us a review on your favorite podcast app and tell your friends about our broadcast. It really does help us reach more people and keeps the show growing. All right, back to your regularly scheduled programming.
[00:31:58] Robbie Wagner: It’s hard to [00:32:00] monetize a podcast because unless you have so many listeners that you can be sure, like. Like we talked about this I guess in the car on the way to or from all things open like you know How many people do you have to have? for it to like There to be enough people that actually do a thing because like, you know, I’m thinking we tell people hey go to whiskey. fund or like Hey, check out all things open or whatever A handful of people will do it. Not that many.
[00:32:27] And then like, of that handful, basically none convert. So it’s like, I think what the issue is, is like, that happens to everyone. No one is like, so compelling that everyone does it. It’s just, if you have an audience of 300 million people, and 1 percent of them do a thing, then it’s like, Oh,
[00:32:45] okay, well if you
[00:32:46] Chuck Carpenter: conversion is valuable. Yeah, I think any kind of conversion is difficult. Especially for folks that like, this is a full time gig and like, must be monetized. I mean, there’s certainly experts in the field. I already [00:33:00] mentioned Sentry and I brought up ChangeLog. You know, ChangeLog is excellent at providing value across multiple subject matters, adding ads in, in a tasteful way, like very, they’re very much professional.
[00:33:13] So maybe that’s a variance comparatively, but we’re working on it. We’re three years in, three years. Can you believe this shit?
[00:33:20] Three. years. help.
[00:33:23] Robbie Wagner: Like, the Sentry way is nice because it’s a brand recognition. We just keep Sentry, Sentry, Sentry, but we’re not
[00:33:30] pushing it on you. There’s no codes, there’s no, it’s just like, if you want to handle some errors, you should check it out, Which I think is, uh, the best way to do ads because if you have an explicit ad that’s like, go to this thing, cause we told you to go to slash whiskey web FM. And like, you’ll get 10 percent off. Everyone’s going to be like, first off, no.
[00:33:49] Second off, maybe I remember the thing you talked about later and forget to go to your link and just Google it
[00:33:56] or whatever. so I don’t think that’s a great way to do it. Change log is [00:34:00] the complete other side. Super professional, super polished, super like. when you have it like that, you can do a couple more ads that are like baked in and have a like link associated with them and get more conversions. I feel like because it’s like so regimented, but
[00:34:17] Chuck Carpenter: I think we should do a series. Okay. I have an idea right now. We’ll see where this goes, but I think we should do a series of the business of podcasting, whether it’s an actual full time business or not, like kind of
[00:34:29] secondary
[00:34:31] to anyone who’s willing to be like very transparent. I mean, because again, it’s like.
[00:34:36] I’m not gonna take your listens, bro. Don’t worry about it. But people ask us all the time, What do you recommend? What do you recommend in our equipment? What do you recommend, , in terms of like making this a thing?
[00:34:49] Robbie Wagner: I
[00:34:50] recommend a big pile of luck.
[00:34:52] That’s how you do well.
[00:34:53] Chuck Carpenter: I mean, that’s life in general. Yes. Charisma. Which, uh, I keep trying to work on.
[00:34:59] I [00:35:00] watch
[00:35:00] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, And like, how does he do my my charisma pills, but they
[00:35:03] just
[00:35:03] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, Charisma Carpenter. Remember her?
[00:35:07] Robbie Wagner: No,
[00:35:07] Chuck Carpenter: that was, uh, no. No. there’s so many terrible things I
[00:35:12] can say there. Uh, not related. Luckily, I am from Kentucky though, it wouldn’t matter. no, she was in like Buffy or something. And, uh, it was like one of the early people I remember, like, aside from director John Carpenter, there’s like, my last name is not frequently.
[00:35:29] famous people. So John Carpenter, her, there’s that singer now, Sabrina Carpenter,
[00:35:34] right? I
[00:35:35] think anyway, back to it. I would like to do a series of podcasts about the business of podcasting and we could, , have guests from various popular tech podcasts if they are willing to kind of talk about some behind the scenes that I think is very interesting.
[00:35:52] Robbie Wagner: I
[00:35:52] Chuck Carpenter: it is sort of of anything is interesting we don’t have to limit it to podcasts but we could start with that
[00:35:57] Robbie Wagner: but
[00:35:57] like
[00:35:58] Chuck Carpenter: with podcast. The like I don’t [00:36:00] I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this on the podcast Or even to you. I feel like I mentioned it to everyone So let me know if i’ve talked about this before like old town alexandria bougie Expensive area,
[00:36:11] Robbie Wagner: right?
[00:36:12] two wig shops there
[00:36:14] how is there even one let alone two and then like how would you sell enough wigs? and that’s maybe an extreme example because those are clearly a front for drugs or something.
[00:36:24] Um, but
[00:36:26] Chuck Carpenter: But they got an early
[00:36:28] Robbie Wagner: like do they actually expect to turn a profit based on their rent there or is it like advertising budget, right?
[00:36:36] You’re seeing it as you
[00:36:37] walk by you think about it and you go online and buy it
[00:36:39] Chuck Carpenter: I do think brick and mortars A lot of times are like one of two things. I do think they’re a marketing budget part of it is like seeing, touching, feeling, like, you know, I guess touching and feeling aren’t, different, but I do think it, uh, it gets you like some sort of in person,
[00:36:58] but then people like buying online, [00:37:00] especially something like expensive like that.
[00:37:03] Yeah, I would, I would say. Even for me, it was like, I’m more apt to I don’t like trying things on. Actually, I’m more apt to, like, buy four things online, figure out the one I want, and send the other three
[00:37:15] Robbie Wagner: Oh, absolutely. I will never go try something on. I do like to go see things in person and like
[00:37:21] feel the material, but I’m not, if I’m like, Hey, I don’t know if, you know, I’m a large or an XL, I’ll be like, I’ll just buy both. And I’ll bring back the one I don’t want,
[00:37:29] Chuck Carpenter: well, I don’t know if I’m a medium or large, by the way, a medium, at least in our t shirts, the, the most recent one. And,
[00:37:37] uh, happy about that. But let me step back a little bit here because you went all over the place. there’s a similar but different situation in old town Scottsdale. So like Scottsdale, super bougie place.
[00:37:50] I mean, I’ve seen more supercars in Scottsdale, Arizona than I have anywhere in the world that I’ve traveled to. And that was like, you know, in Europe, that’s in like [00:38:00] Dubai, where you can buy a Lamborghini in the mall, you know, shit like that, whatever, still Scottsdale like covers it. Just I don’t know,
[00:38:08] Robbie Wagner: Is it, there are more car people there cause their cars don’t rust as
[00:38:12] Chuck Carpenter: yeah, I think there’s part of it and I think people have additional houses and things like that and they keep things here. There’s definitely some of that. There are, like, a bunch of, like, souvenir and art stores that look like they’ve been there for 50 years or so. I’m sure they got a really long, super cheap deal before things blew up.
[00:38:35] Half the time they’re closed, and this real estate is incredibly prime. Like how is this with like five pieces of art in the window that are like 5, 000 plus, like who’s buying this? Nobody’s buying this. You don’t care if they buy it. You sell one a year and cover your mortgage. I don’t know.
[00:38:54] Robbie Wagner: yeah, I had not considered what you just mentioned that they maybe have like a 10 year lease and [00:39:00] they got a good deal a long time ago.
[00:39:02] That’s maybe how they survive because I’m looking at like today’s rent and I’m like, ain’t no way like you’re going in here. There was a place like that in Old Town.
[00:39:10] It’s like a little knickknack shop. You buy like political shirts like a Trump bobblehead shit like that. It’s like
[00:39:15] Chuck Carpenter: Hmm. How of everything. Uh, all of them,
[00:39:18] Robbie Wagner: uh, was, was 20 bucks per, like was like the most expensive thing was 20 bucks. Right. So I’m like, all right, your rent has got to be 10, 000 a month.
[00:39:29] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah.
[00:39:30] Robbie Wagner: And you’re telling me that you’re going to sell what’s that add up to? I don’t know. Thousands of these little
[00:39:37] bullshit
[00:39:38] things. Like, I don’t think so. And then you’re going to also hire someone to work there unless you’re the owner working there.
[00:39:44] Chuck Carpenter: There’s a whole commercial real estate, world that we don’t understand. I’m certain of this. We were talking about this because you were saying, like, Oh, there’s a Moby Dick moving it, you know, down the road. And it’s in Great Falls, Great Falls, Virginia. [00:40:00] And I will give you Robbie’s address later if you want to send him a bag of dicks.
[00:40:04] I’ve
[00:40:04] Robbie Wagner: come to Cars and Coffee and once
[00:40:06] Chuck Carpenter: And.
[00:40:07] Robbie Wagner: Chuck will be there.
[00:40:08] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, Katie’s Cars and Coffee in Great Falls, Virginia is one of the better. I would say I’m underwhelmed this last visit, but in my past visits, it’s
[00:40:18] Robbie Wagner: You mean at the quality of the cars? It was pretty packed.
[00:40:22] Chuck Carpenter: It’s been much bigger and maybe it’s me because I’m biased. I want to see a lot of Porsche.
[00:40:27] There was not that many, , and a lot of them were 996 is on. So, you know, I didn’t get a very diverse selection of air cooled back. I mean, they’ll rotate some stuff. Cause what? There was like that little area DeLoreans in excellent condition. And then, you know, that’s kind of fun. But.
[00:40:46] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, and people came and went.
[00:40:48] Like, do that. yeah, they would leave and then someone else would park there
[00:40:52] and So I’m sure we missed some things, but yeah, I mean, I’ve been to You know just a few myself [00:41:00] having not had a car that’s worth going with Pretty much ever except I never took the bronco.
[00:41:05] I
[00:41:05] Chuck Carpenter: Right. That would
[00:41:06] have been the time.
[00:41:07] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, i’m surprised that no one really has much of that.
[00:41:11] I guess it’s not a performance showy vehicle per
[00:41:14] se
[00:41:15] Chuck Carpenter: It’s,
[00:41:15] no, it’s anything because I saw like this old truck that was kind of lifted. It was like some fifties truck and it was lifted and it was like old school looking. That pulled in, there was a lot of interesting stuff there. I would say the difference between like that and cars and coffee in Scottsdale, there would be like a Bugatti Veyron.
[00:41:36] I saw that that’s a million dollar car. you’ll see that in Scottsdale. I saw the
[00:41:40] one that paid for their houses here, so they can’t afford that here.
[00:41:44] Yeah, exactly. Uh, that motorcycle, it has a jet engine on it. I saw there one time, you know, that kind of stuff. Like, shows up here. There, you get a greater diversity of, like, really cool vintage cars.
[00:41:57] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. that makes sense.
[00:41:58] Chuck Carpenter: let’s see here. [00:42:00] I’m not touching your second bullet point on
[00:42:03] Robbie Wagner: I can bring it up. We’re, we are publicly anti Guillermo already, aren’t we?
[00:42:09] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, I mean, just because he stole Two things. This is the problem I have. One is that, like, they ghost us. We sent whiskey, which cost us money, out of our
[00:42:18] pockets. Like, good for you, Guillermo. Guillermo’s a smart guy. He has created a bunch of really cool things. He
[00:42:26] sold
[00:42:26] some
[00:42:26] Robbie Wagner: use a lot of them.
[00:42:28] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. And we use them too.
[00:42:29] So we don’t, you know, his personal thing doesn’t affect like our professional decisions, but like he took whiskey, he ghosted us and his 45 different personal assistants now refuse to reply to us as to like, he said, fuck off. I don’t know. I don’t know what he said. I don’t know what he
[00:42:48] thinks, but I’m like really annoyed with that.
[00:42:51] Robbie Wagner: I would respect it a lot more if you just told us why. Cause like up until he said no, he was like, sounds cool. ,
[00:42:59] you know, [00:43:00] this is the kind of whiskey I
[00:43:00] Chuck Carpenter: He’s been on other podcasts where he just like, spiel, like the
[00:43:04] Robbie Wagner: So either, like if we hit you at the wrong time, then you go, Hey, I’m sorry. Let’s reschedule for
[00:43:10] a
[00:43:10] Chuck Carpenter: Let’s do it in six months. Like, happy to do that.
[00:43:13] Robbie Wagner: But it wasn’t that it was just like he decided no and like we got no explanation and I’m like at least tell us why like I can understand I might be mad still but I would understand if you gave me a reason of like
[00:43:26] hey He thinks you’re a dick so he’s not gonna come on
[00:43:30] valid point like
[00:43:31] Chuck Carpenter: You hate React. He said,
[00:43:32] nah,
[00:43:34] Robbie Wagner: yeah But yeah, so anyway this this point I put on here.
[00:43:38] , I didn’t know why this was a thing I just saw everyone being like, oh guess we got to get off for sell now and I was like Wait, why? So this blue sky came in handy because I searched for sell and it showed me all the posts and like It was actually Kelly Vaughn was like Had a screenshot of like him being like, yeah, president Trump, you’re the [00:44:00] best.
[00:44:00] Like, so glad you won with this like super awesome election. And Elon helped so much with all the free speech and the blah, blah, blah.
[00:44:07] And the, everyone is just like mass, like, Oh, well, Vercel isn’t an option anymore. And so people will just creep into those and be like. Hey, I use Netlify by the way. So that, like, that’s another thing that we’ve talked about before is like, you know, separating the art from the artist. This is a
[00:44:24] Chuck Carpenter: Yes. but like, is Vercel still the best product versus Netlify? Like, is it worth changing just over like the political views of who’s in charge?
[00:44:35] Yeah, I mean, well, I, I say, first of all, I say this, be careful how far you dig into the people behind, you know, the, the genius or whatever else. Like, I think you’re not going to like what you find for a lot of people, a lot of people, especially in like American ingenuity. I think you’re not going to like what you find there.
[00:44:57] Like you’re not going to align with their personal [00:45:00] views from recently to a hundred years ago. You’re just going to like keep finding things that You know, philanderers and assholes and racists. And who knows? You’re not going to like what you find.
[00:45:13] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.
[00:45:14] Chuck Carpenter: what you’re
[00:45:14] Robbie Wagner: People in power abuse power
[00:45:17] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. I think that’s a, I think there’s a frequency to that for better or worse.
[00:45:22] So there is something to be said about that. are you going to sell your Tesla? Are you going to like, how far are you going with it? You know, I don’t
[00:45:29] like
[00:45:29] Robbie Wagner: Me personally. I
[00:45:31] Chuck Carpenter: no, I’m just in. Yeah,
[00:45:33] in general, I think in general, like, you know, Tesla is revolutionized, electric vehicles in America and the world.
[00:45:40] I mean, there’s no doubt about that. I mean, it’s absolutely
[00:45:43] true. they pressed. Other automakers to like really get into this space and they proved a lot in their first five plus years Like there’s a ton going on there so if you don’t like Elon because of this then you should sell your Tesla and you should [00:46:00] not have a Starlink and There are conveniences that you are going to lose and that’s okay If that’s the trade off that you’re willing to do, I just don’t know that like If that is how your values align, like, it’s almost like veganism, right, to a degree.
[00:46:16] anything made with animal products, right? So anything made with Elon products, I’m out. I’m out.
[00:46:23] That’s it.
[00:46:23] Robbie Wagner: I think
[00:46:24] Chuck Carpenter: So,
[00:46:27] Robbie Wagner: even the past few weeks, I feel like I kind of understood how people could like blanket, hate a person, not use it. , you know, whatever. And now I think there’s just a lot of nuance. anyone can spin anyone to look evil at any given point. I think, you know, while I, I’m not endorsing any parties or anything here, but I’m saying like, I think that we’ve, you know, all gotten so polarized and like you see one post from someone that you trust and everyone just doesn’t do their own [00:47:00] research on anything and just like piles on I think there’s some truth and some not truth to everything.
[00:47:06] Like you just need to make up your own mind, do some more research and like,
[00:47:11] Anyone can have a bad day. Anyone can be taken out of context. Anything bad can happen anywhere and like give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
[00:47:19] Chuck Carpenter: certainly. And I do believe in the power of boycotting. I’m not saying I would never do that, because I absolutely would, because I Can hold a grudge when I get pushed over a line and I will be like, yep, fuck you. I’m done. I don’t give a shit so you should do that Like if you believe that strongly or you’ve been affected directly or whatever else you absolutely should do that And you should encourage those and and whatever else totally take that.
[00:47:47] It’s just I’m just saying it can’t apply across your entire life because our environment like financially, politically, and whatever else in many ways is just like, you’re probably not going to [00:48:00] agree across the board and, and how those things go. So I would say, take that power into account.
[00:48:07] you’re not going to go create a new country and like have this beautiful little like bubble world. It’s just, it, it
[00:48:14] Robbie Wagner: yeah. And I would say to the people who like hate Elon and won’t touch any of his stuff. If you care about the environment, which I would assume the people that hate Elon do, he’s putting out electric cars and he’s maybe the only person doing anything environmentally friendly that Trump likes. So like, you know, take a step back. Maybe everyone could have some benefits if like, you know,
[00:48:40] Maybe I should stop talking about this. What are we, uh, I’m, let’s see what else we have. Ooh, yes.
[00:48:46] Chuck Carpenter: Okay.
[00:48:48] Robbie Wagner: It is sick. Okay.
[00:48:51] No, it’s electric? I won’t buy anything gas powered because, I mean, I do care about the environment, but also, I just don’t want it to be [00:49:00] loud, and I don’t want to have to go get gas.
[00:49:03] that’s just
[00:49:04] inconvenient. oil and all that
[00:49:06] Chuck Carpenter: fun stuff.,
[00:49:07] Robbie Wagner: so I got a, like, it’s not the most powerful, , Ryobi one, but it’s like, It’s pretty close like so the one I had before was like 280 CFM
[00:49:17] and this one’s 730
[00:49:19] so like much more powerful It’s just it puts the other one to shame. I went
[00:49:24] out there and started Blowing leaves and it was just like Just like all gone and I was like my god.
[00:49:29] What have I been wasting all of my time on
[00:49:31] for the
[00:49:32] past like
[00:49:32] Chuck Carpenter: this? Like, is this, oh, today? Okay. So this is topical. Cool. Okay, that’s great. Yeah, I saw you like flailing about because Robbie has a lot of trees around his house and as the seasons change like obviously, there’s many leaves and Yada, yada, yada. So I’m like, oh man, are you sure you want to go out there and do that?
[00:49:54] And he’s like, hmm. Yeah I guess
[00:49:57] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,
[00:49:58] Chuck Carpenter: Leaves blowing down around [00:50:00] him. It’s like just absolute The futility of it is very entertaining or was entertaining, but now
[00:50:07] Robbie Wagner: Yeah,
[00:50:08] so problem is solved now like I think within two hours I could blow all of the leaves from all of my property into the woods and So that is just like so much different than the experience. I was having
[00:50:20] You know, it’s kind of like Laravel or a rails
[00:50:26] It just makes everything so much quicker
[00:50:28] Chuck Carpenter: Okay. So let’s talk about this briefly. So speaking of Jason’s, but not the one who has been chatting with us, you’re going to fly to Houston and yes. and do one of Jason’s
[00:50:43] like
[00:50:43] four. Yeah, web dev challenges. I challenge you to use
[00:50:49] Robbie Wagner: is the thing. I’m leaning towards getting a little out of my Ember comfort zone and maybe doing Astro or like trying to make, [00:51:00] you know, web standards be the thing and less like JavaScript magic. I haven’t decided yet.
[00:51:05] Chuck Carpenter: Stop trying
[00:51:06] to make fetch happen. Fetch.
[00:51:08] Robbie Wagner: So there will be front, it’s going to be full stack.
[00:51:11] You
[00:51:11] have to like integrate with a MailChimp API and like do some stuff. So I think it behooves me to use a thing with like API routes and stuff.
[00:51:22] so Astro has that capability. Ember does not. so I, I like that encapsulation of like, I can do whatever my back end stuff is in this file and like, just hit that. I think that. will be quicker. Even though I could do the front end way quicker in Ember, I think overall it’ll be quicker to
[00:51:40] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you want to spin up and have a thing. I would be remiss To not mention, Next15 has like this whole thing where, so you have your use server, use client, whole bullshit
[00:51:55] and use, use, using, not a hook [00:52:00] just a flag, like use strict used to be and they’re like You’re going to take that and do something else with it.
[00:52:05] I have no idea what’s happening under the hood yet. But, you, instead of creating API routes, because we’re on an app router and not a page router,
[00:52:17] we have s
[00:52:18] Robbie Wagner: files anymore.
[00:52:19] Chuck Carpenter: Right, like, and all the files are called page or layout, by the way. Tell me why that’s better than index? I’m not sure. I mean, it’s mildly better, I guess, because it separates explicitly the page itself and the layout.
[00:52:32] Robbie Wagner: index, okay, sorry, keep, keep your thought. Index is fundamentally the way routing and JavaScript works. If you have foo slash index and you go
[00:52:42] to foo, it will automatically load index. Yeah. Anyway, continue.
[00:52:47] Chuck Carpenter: Server actions. So server actions are the new thing and you can organize them in a few different ways. You can organize them in context directly. Like you can have a function and then at the [00:53:00] top you say you server for this function and then you can do your server things or you can separate it and import it and put it in actions out here and tell it use server.
[00:53:11] I don’t know. This is just the world I’m living in right now. Like it or hate it. not sure but it is very different like Want to talk to Dax a little about this like how they just every major Release is just a fundamental change in how you think about this And I do want to like preface this with like I was very much a next fan I came in the next at like version 8 or 9 something around there and I was like, oh my god, this is good React Apps like create react app is like fuckery and people bring in 64 different ways to deal with
[00:53:48] Robbie Wagner: yeah.
[00:53:48] Chuck Carpenter: else.
[00:53:49] And
[00:53:49] Robbie Wagner: all agree. Create react app was not a
[00:53:52] good
[00:53:52] Chuck Carpenter: yeah, not good. And because you were still kind of Lego piecing your stuff together. And that wasn’t [00:54:00] fun and learning four or five different ways, especially as like a consultant who was like coming into other people’s opinions, right? So. Next kind of saved me from that. Big Next fan sent him some whiskey.
[00:54:14] If I mention that, like, this motherfucker, like, stole a hundred bucks from us, like, he’s got it. I’m gonna go to the shitty city of San Francisco, no I’m just kidding, it’s not shitty,
[00:54:24] Robbie Wagner: not great.
[00:54:29] Chuck Carpenter: And this is the part. That people love or drop off from, which is that I’m a little drunk now and I’m on a rant and I’m saying that like next used to have very strong opinions and I, I do think they still do. I, I hold the point that they do have
[00:54:45] strong opinions.
[00:54:46] Robbie Wagner: make sense.
[00:54:47] Chuck Carpenter: But that like every major release they kind of nudge to another version of that opinion and that’s not what I bought into initially and then like that’s what’s kind of annoying and that’s what’s like [00:55:00] Actually, I don’t know that much about ember for but I remember loving that about ember is that these strong opinions were fairly consistent and we were just moving into like deeper and deeper ingrained in those opinions
[00:55:13] Robbie Wagner: Yeah. , Ember has changed a lot. To where like, we’re actually almost on six now. and when I say we I of course don’t mean us at Amazon. So we’ll be stuck on three until the day I die. But,
[00:55:26] Chuck Carpenter: That’s a good one. Three is a good one
[00:55:28] Robbie Wagner: 328 was a really good one because you
[00:55:30] could use the old and the new you could I mean you still can like they’re very good about like backwards compatibility and like You know if you have a component that’s still on like really old shit that shouldn’t work.
[00:55:43] It will still kind of work so next I I was on the next train too like netflix was using it. Everyone was using it. It was like The shit it was like kind of very similar. I had used nuxt a lot. It was all like file-based routing all magic like [00:56:00] a lot of magic that I liked so where I don’t have to explicitly go configure a thing And it just like it became So it’s so tedious and I, I maintain, like, I want to hear more about react compiler where they’ve basically acknowledged, Hey, this blows, , let’s let you write it one way and we’ll just compile it and get rid of the complexity.
[00:56:21] And like, that’s the way I think a lot of things should work. We should be able to have, all right, I’m writing next.js 10, but I’m just, I want you to just compile transpile magicky just make it the new one.
[00:56:35] like you know what I meant, I wrote it this way, convert it to whatever you want it to be. Like, I shouldn’t have to learn a new thing every six months because you changed your mind.
[00:56:45] Chuck Carpenter: Here’s the thing is that you’re conflating react and next and they’re different. Even
[00:56:52] though I’m just,
[00:56:53] overlap, like next 15 still uses an RC version of react
[00:56:59] Robbie Wagner: [00:57:00] they control React and Next,
[00:57:02] and it’s
[00:57:02] Chuck Carpenter: a degree, to a
[00:57:03] degree they
[00:57:03] do. Yeah.
[00:57:05] Yeah. And because a for profit, well, it was, it’s always been a for profit and an, um, Like initiative.
[00:57:12] Robbie Wagner: but a switch flipped. Maybe it was at a certain level of profitability or like investors that he’s like beholden to, but like it used to be I don’t think there were that many people ever like, you know, a few years back that were like, oh, Vercel and Guillermo. Like, no, no, they were like, like before it was called Vercel even like it was, uh,
[00:57:34] like Zeit and there was something before that.
[00:57:36] And
[00:57:37] Chuck Carpenter: was it? Yeah, I know. I got on board when it was like,
[00:57:41] I was like, Oh my
[00:57:41] Robbie Wagner: I think
[00:57:42] Chuck Carpenter: fun and easy.
[00:57:43] Robbie Wagner: Yeah, during all of that, it kind of had that like, even when it became Verselle, it was still that like, super bass kind of like Oh, this is hot. This is like, yeah, we’re all into this
[00:57:52] and then something flipped They were just like oh like we realized we need to make this proprietary And make only our stuff work the best and [00:58:00] like whole mental model shifted they all wore black shirts like I don’t know. I don’t know what happened,
[00:58:06] but
[00:58:06] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. The,
[00:58:07] Robbie Wagner: feels very uh,
[00:58:08] evil empire y like and it’s I don’t know why it has to be that way because we all loved everything for a long time and You I think we still could if they just made a few better choices.
[00:58:19] Chuck Carpenter: So you could potentially love a react framework.
[00:58:25] Robbie Wagner: Well, the thing that I liked is I hate how React has no conventions. I’m a big conventions guy.
[00:58:31] I stand by the fact that you must have routing to be a framework.
[00:58:35] I don’t want to install
[00:58:36] React Router.
[00:58:38] Chuck Carpenter: I haven’t messed with it, but TanStack is getting
[00:58:41] a lot
[00:58:42] It’s getting a lot of like yeah, a lot of fanfare a
[00:58:44] lot of like people are
[00:58:46] excited.
[00:58:46] Robbie Wagner: shout out to Tanner, guest of the podcast. Check out episode something. I don’t know what number it is.
[00:58:51] Chuck Carpenter: 90 I don’t know
[00:58:53] it was
[00:58:53] Robbie Wagner: Just Google, uh, Whiskey Web and whatnot. Tanner.
[00:58:56] Okay. Well, we’re, we’re over time and probably [00:59:00] didn’t really get to any topics, but, uh,
[00:59:02] quick note. I have been drinking eggnog for the past, , week and a half
[00:59:06] Chuck Carpenter: know why you look fatter.
[00:59:08] Robbie Wagner: Well, that’s that’s from the food, uh taco bell for lunch
[00:59:12] Chuck Carpenter: hhhahhaha Oh my God.
[00:59:15] Robbie Wagner: But yeah, I am here for the team that’s like, November 1st, Christmas, let’s decorate. Like, we got lights out. I mean, we
[00:59:21] don’t
[00:59:22] yet, but like, in the neighborhood, people have lights out. eggnog is flowing. We got, like, we’re gonna start decorating inside soon, because Thanksgiving is
[00:59:31] so late. Like, you can’t wait till after Thanksgiving, it’ll already be fucking December.
[00:59:35] Chuck Carpenter: We, typically decorate like the day after Thanksgiving, but we don’t, we’d like put some things out. We’ll like do some pumpkin y like we have a good like Halloween to Thanksgiving transition where you have some like leaf things and pumpkins and whatever else. But we, we don’t, uh, there’s no tree until after
[00:59:58] Robbie Wagner: Oh, I [01:00:00] was told today. we added another tree. I think we’re at five trees now that we’re gonna have It’s getting out of
[01:00:07] hand.
[01:00:07] Chuck Carpenter: five trees.
[01:00:09] Robbie Wagner: Yeah one Yeah, one real one which goes in the basement and then one fancy one that has to be all you know color coordinated For the main tree and like the front window then a smaller one in the uh family room one in our room one in finn’s room
[01:00:26] Chuck Carpenter: you would not survive. You would not survive in Europe. You absolutely would not.
[01:00:30] Robbie Wagner: They don’t
[01:00:32] believe in having a
[01:00:33] Chuck Carpenter: you had like George Clooney kind of money. Because nobody has that kind of space.
[01:00:39] They’re not like, oh,
[01:00:40] we’re putting
[01:00:40] Robbie Wagner: yes.
[01:00:42] Well, we would, we would
[01:00:43] adjust to our space. Like, if we had less space, you’d have less trees. It’s just like,
[01:00:48] Caitlin’s thinking about the areas that you can see trees in, and
[01:00:51] she’s like, oh yeah,
[01:00:52] Chuck Carpenter: here it is.
[01:00:53] We’re all moving to Europe. We’re going to start ship shape Europe.
[01:00:57] Robbie Wagner: I mean,
[01:00:59] Chuck Carpenter: I’m going to get you
[01:00:59] Robbie Wagner: [01:01:00] thing that I,
[01:01:01] Really the
[01:01:01] only two things that I can’t get behind about Europe. One, salaries are like, you work for free. And two, I don’t remember what two was.
[01:01:12] Fuck me.
[01:01:13] Chuck Carpenter: important part.
[01:01:14] Robbie Wagner: Yeah.
[01:01:15] Chuck Carpenter: I don’t
[01:01:15] like one either. I
[01:01:17] Robbie Wagner: Uh, oh, two, I guess two is the other flip side of the housing is really expensive. on where you
[01:01:22] are. Like, okay, well in London for sure.
[01:01:26] Like I know I’ve looked at jobs in London and it’s like, all right, super senior staff leading the company dev, 75, 000. And then it’s like,
[01:01:36] Chuck Carpenter: But that, that salary is like the same in Manchester, which is a
[01:01:40] city, and
[01:01:41] the cost of everything is
[01:01:43] Robbie Wagner: who is, who has what jobs in London? That’s like, Oh, this flat, that’s like 500 square feet is 2 million.
[01:01:48] Like.
[01:01:49] I don’t get how
[01:01:50] Chuck Carpenter: know.
[01:01:51] Robbie Wagner: I don’t know.
[01:01:52] Chuck Carpenter: I think that’s an internationalized city, and I don’t think that the British owned it or something. If I had to
[01:01:59] Robbie Wagner: That’s fair. [01:02:00] Yeah. there are places that are affordable for sure. , and I could get behind the whole, like much less working where it’s like, Oh yeah. Uh,
[01:02:08] Chuck Carpenter: Work life balance. That’s why the salaries are lower. They’re like, listen, these fuckers are working like 20 hours a week
[01:02:14] max.
[01:02:15] Robbie Wagner: All right. 52 weeks a year of that we work 15
[01:02:19] so
[01:02:19] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah.
[01:02:19] Robbie Wagner: is vacation.
[01:02:20] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah, so actually the ROI is pretty good. Maybe it’s prime for over employment. I don’t know.
[01:02:26] Robbie Wagner: It really could be because you’d be like, Oh, I’m going to go camping for six months. And they’d be like, cool. See you when you get back. And then you could just start another job for six
[01:02:33] months.
[01:02:33] Chuck Carpenter: Yeah. Yeah. Who knows. Or Americans gonna abuse the system.
[01:02:39] Robbie Wagner: yeah. As we do.
[01:02:41] All right. Well, yeah, we’re, we’re over time. Thanks everyone for listening. You know, have a drink, hang out, see you next week.
[01:02:49] Uh, I think. Do we have we’re supposed to have a guest next week, but it’s uh, I don’t think we sent them whiskey. So I don’t know if
[01:02:56] that’s
[01:02:57] Chuck Carpenter: Oh, can you do that? No, that’s my [01:03:00] job. That’s the one thing I do, is mail you
[01:03:02] Robbie Wagner: I I do some of it. But uh, yeah, I don’t know.
[01:03:06] This
[01:03:06] is well, we should talk here in a sec.
[01:03:09] Peace
[01:03:09] Outro: You’ve been watching Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Recorded in front of a live studio audience. What the fuck are you talking about, Chuck? Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know, people don’t pay attention to these, right? Head to whiskey.fund for merchant to join our Discord server. I’m serious, it’s like 2% of people who actually click these links. And don’t forget to leave us a five star review and tell your friends about the show. All right, dude, I’m outta here. Still got it.